MMRB Minutes

MEETING
CITY OF WALKER
MINERAL MINING REVIEW BOARD
Thursday, February 16, 2006
3:30 p.m.

The meeting of the Mineral Mining Board of Review was called to order by Steve Versluis, Chairman at 3:30 p.m. at City Hall, 4243 Remembrance Rd., N.W., Walker, Michigan.

Members present: Steve Versluis, Chairman; Scott Conners; Frank Wash; Mark Koning; and Gary Voogt. Also present: Jeff Nelson, Building Official; Dick Denney, Deputy Building Official; Bonnie Broadwater,Engineering Dept. and Bonnie Antcliff, Recording Secretary.

Property located at 2200 Walker, N.W., also known on the tax rolls as 41-13-10-329-001, 002, 003, 476-008, 15-201-002.

Applicant & Velting Contractors

Mining Cont: 3060 Breton Rd., SE

Kentwood, Mi.

Owners: Kenneth & Kathleen Jackson Edmund Preston

5924 Barna Ave. PO Box 141667

Titusville, Fla. 32780 Grand Rapids, Mi. 49514-1667

Steve Versluis, Chairman reviewed the application and site plan submitted. No other citizen appeared with respect to this request.

Bonnie Broadwater, Engineering Dept. stated that everything on this site looks in order. They do however, need to obtain a soil erosion permit.

Jeff Nelson stated that there were two stipulations from last year, one that the slopes on proposed lots 4 & 5 be established by August 15, 2005, and that a sign be placed at the entrance for exiting vehicles delineating that only a right turn is allowed.

They have a sign up with an arrow that shows no left turn and a sign below that saying no trucks allowed southbound on Walker Ave. We have the bond and the fence certification.

Brent DeRose, Nederveld Associates stated that this was an active mine this year. A lot of material was moved around. One of the stipulations was on lots 4 & 5 and there was a lot of conversation about it being raw last year. Scott Velting has the whole north side along the former railroad grade all cleaned up and stabilized and there is grass growing there. The bank continues to work to the west to get closer to Walker Ave. A lot of material was taken out of here last year. For 2006 we will continue to work in the southwest. We have an open cell north of the haul road and we will work on the area to the northwest corner. As far as a reclamation plan, we will continue to work on the north slope and continue to work it to the northwest as we are excavating the material out of there. We will continue to work at the final base grade to bring that up. A good portion is up to that 667 contour behind the concrete rubble pile that is in the process of being processed. That is a summary of the plan for this year.

Steve Versluis asked if there are new stock piles on this site?

Mr. DeRose replied that the concrete pile that we are showing in the center of the site is new.

Scott Conners stated that the active face on the west side shows the depth of 663 to the base of the floor which is about 14 ft. deeper than what is proposed. We have had discussions about over excavation and allowing that to be only 5 ft. So you are about 10 ft. deep. Why is that?

Brent DeRose replied that he did not recall any talk about only going to 5 ft. This one has always been to that elevation and Mr. Velting has always worked just above the water table to try to contain the water and that is the depth of the excavation. Two or three years ago the base elevation was about 660 and we have increased that to make sure the future lots have sanitary sewer availability.

Scott Conners replied if you are going to do that then we need to get in there and have some pretty extensive testing to make sure that what goes back in there will be compacted. There should be a plan in place for that and you should provide us with documentation as the reclamation takes place.

Scott Velting replied that we have raised the elevation here 6 or 7 ft. He went on to say that we need to sit down with the Board and discuss that.

Gary Voogt stated that he is also concerned about over excavation. The sanitary sewer that comes through here will be the outlet for the development of this property and it appears that some of the ground is excavation below the ground to the invert of the sewer or it is not just this plan but what the future use will be here. It looks like there is 10 ft. out too much, sewers have 57 and the dirt is at 50 or 53.

Brent DeRose replied that the base elevation will be 667 and invert for the sewer will be around 661.

Scott Velting stated that we had only 3 ft. of cover over the sewer and that is why we raised it to 67. With all the work here it may go higher. There seems to be a high demand for good dirt.

Scott Conners stated he was concerned about the material here being compacted and being good material. The road and buildings are going to have to be built over this and he would like to see that not going any deeper. We would like to see you adher to the 667 elevation and maybe going 3 or 4 ft. deeper but any deeper than that would seem excessive.

Scott Velting replied it makes sense to go the water level and it was not excessive until we raised the finished grade. We are putting material in here and compacting it as we go and running equipment on it everyday. When the development comes, we can do a density test that is not a problem. The sewer will be going up that road and it will get torn back up. Whatever documentation you need we can do.

Scott Conners stated that he is worried about the adjacent areas because we may not require soil borings and density testing across the whole site.

Scott Conners stated that Mr. Preston has signed the permit application. He asked if there was any discussion with him? He comes in periodically and talks about putting a building expansion across that road. Has there been any discussion with him about working together whereby that road is going to need a little bit less criticism from him and perhaps he can expand his building to the west.

Mr. Velting replied that Mr. Preston will not let us do anything with the sand. He only deals with John Potter and we have not gotten anywhere trying to work something out about the sand. He went on to say that he does not get involved with the building although he heard he wanted to put the building where he wanted to put it and that would mean that you would not be able to do the road. Mr. Velting did not think that he would be able to get a building permit.

Scott Conners stated that he did not want to see him come in and say that he does not know anything about the master plan for a road here. He went on to say that he has signed his name to this application every year and he felt this should be talked about between Mr. Preston and Mr. Velting.

Mr. Velting replied that there is not much we can do there. He stated that he knows that Walker has an interest in putting in a road there.

Scott Conners stated that it is in the transportation master plan and we have pointed out how critical it is to that whole area there that has only one way in and out for trucks so we need to have it.

Mr. Velting replied you are right, Mr. Preston is signing it every year.

Scott Conners stated that with lot 3, and as you look towards the future on how that might be graded out and reclaimed, he could do his expansion in that direction rather than across the street and then that property across the street would be buildable property. It makes sense to talk about that now as you get to the final years of the permit.

Mr.Velting stated that Mr. Preston has nothing to compel him to do anything. We have tried to work out swaps with him, and let him know that we have an interest in the sand and we have nothing to compel him to do anything.

Steve Versluis stated that the plan shows a 5 year completion date. Is that realistic?

Mr. Velting replied that certainly if we can get the sand out of there. He went on to say that he has had discussions with the Jacksons and has asked them to take the house down on the hill because that is where we would like to continue with the sand. In years past they have been willing to do it and now they do not know if they want to take the house down or not. If they do not take the house down, there is not much sand left. If we get a highway job or mall job, it could clean this site up in a year. We have to get that pile of concrete out of here by October 2007.

Brent DeRose stated that we have been watching the face move westerly about 150 ft. per year. So we are getting pretty close to our final reclamation contours. If the house goes down we will have an opportunity to move to the southwest.

Bonnie Broadwater stated they could have a soil erosion application before they leave today. She stated we are asking that you put any additional erosion controls that you are proposing on the site plan. We are waiving the fees and bond as that will be covered under your mineral mining permit.

Scott Conners stated that Mr. Preston signs for this permit every year. He stated he is a little nervous because they acknowledge every year that this road is going to go through here and they know about it. Then every year or so we hear that they are going to build a building across here and you are not going to get a road. We look at this and we have a clean slate here to work off. Maybe we could work with the Veltings and the Jacksons to make sure that they have an opportunity to do that on the southside of this new road, giving them fantastic access to the expressway and truck route. If this is all mined out this year we might miss our chance.

Steve Versluis asked if it might be a good idea to write a letter to the Prestons and get some dialogue going with them.

Frank Wash stated he would be willing to work on that. It works in the City’s favor that the owner is acknowledging the mining plan that contains the road expansion plan. He is assuming liability for that plan by signing it.

Scott Conners felt that the key here is the opportunity to give him what he wants but just adjust it some. They are talking about building the road all the way across the front on the north side of Kloet and that does not make a whole lot of sense. If they could move west into one of these other lots and work with the future owner or developer, they could get the same amount of property when they are done and it would be a smoother process for everyone.

Brent DeRose stated that he has not had any conversations with Mr.Preston about the end use here or future building expansions.

Frank Wash stated that his concern is that this is a useable site long term and that the road connection of Kloet to Walker happens.

Gary Voogt stated that there are two concerns here. One is that the fill is not fill and the other is at what point do we run out of material and need rubble from the expressway to build it back up. Is this 13 or 14 ft. that needs to be filled here?

Mr. Velting replied that he has been turning down fill for that site for a long time. He stated he could fill that site back to the way it was. In today’s market it is more valuable to have a hole in a sand pit. That site can be filled to its original topography without any problem at all. With off site clay. It has been filled with off site clay and compacted. There is density in that dirt and it is good fill. It is not hard to get good fill.

Gary Voogt asked Mr.Velting if he would be willing to write a narrative about the over excavating and how you are going to ensure that it will not be a problem in the future for the property owner?

Mr. Velting replied that when someone comes in for a building permit, you are going to want to have tests before a footing goes down.

Gary Voogt replied that he is not talking about compaction but about volume of dirt. You will have to truck material in to get it up to the future plan grade that you have shown.

Mr. Velting stated that he has had to turn dirt away. He stated he gets calls every week from people who want to dump dirt in here. We turn them away because we are not ready for that. We want to make it so it is a viable industrial property when we are done. We only accept clay and silty, sandy material. We do not bury any rubble, we crush the rubble. All the fill it there has gone in there with the intention of future building upon it.

Gary Voogt stated that in our job as regulating mining, it would be embarrassing if you all walk and then what would happen to this property? It would not be good if the mining board let the contractor over excavate and all the dirt is gone and we have a big hole left. From that standpoint, it would be good if you could include a narrative on how you are looking toward to future use of the property and it is your resolve and intent to bring back compacted fill of good material to meet the final approved grading plan.

Brent DeRose stated that he would not say that there is a shortage of material on the site right now with the amount of material in the south and in the northeast corner. We have 13 ft. of cut that needs to go down to get it to the 667 so there is not a negative amount on this site yet.

Gary Voogt commented that the only purpose of this Board is the end use. Nothing else means as much as the end use.

Scott Velting stated that he has talked with the Jacksons and told them that the real value of the property is what it is going to be. There is marketable sand here as long as we can continue to bring the property back to a grade, the value is in the industrial land and the access to Walker Ave. that close to the highway. Industrial realtors will tell you this will be a prime piece of property once it is done. Nobody will walk away from here.

Mark Koning asked if we are at a point where we are looking at a minimum excavation depth?

Scott Conners commented that we have an obligation to let them mine out the sand because we deem the sand to be a valuable mineral and necessary for development. We also have a need to let them put it back to a one on five slope but do we need to burden adjacent properties with all this extra and all the other issues that come along with it?

Frank Wash asked if there is anything that relates to the regulation of fill in the ordinance? What about the type of fill, quality of fill and compaction?

Jeff Nelson replied that there was some type of discussion about what inert fill would be but it did not get any further than that.

Gary Voogt asked Mr. Velting if we said the elevation was 667 would that put you out of business?

Mr.Velting replied yes. That would leave large deposits of sand that we would like to take out and the Jacksons would like to receive income from. The clay would go back.

Scott Conners stated that in the past we have said that we would allow them to go down to where the footings would be and go 4 ft. deeper than the proposed elevations. That would be fair.

Mr.Velting replied then we would have to amend our plan. We raised the grade a couple of years ago and if that is going to be an issue then we need to table this and amend the plan.

Brent DeRose stated that there has never been a concrete number that we could go down to. We only have a 100 ft. on some of these areas to move it for our excavation and we have already done it for the whole site so this whole site has this fill. If you do that on this last little bit it will shut this mine down.

Frank Wash stated we have addressed the over excavation question on all of these mining sites. Maybe we should change the ordinance for new mines. For these we will have to deal with the fill situation. Instead of having to meet a minimum floor, he felt the Board should start making them meet some fill standards and update the City on what is going in there.

Gary Voogt stated that we have always said if you have sand, you can go down and get it.

Scott Conners replied we have offered alternatives saying they can bring back clean fill, compacted to 90% if it is not in a road area, 95% if it is in a road area. If it is not in the ordinance, it needs to be. We can offer options.

Jeff Nelson stated that he felt that is why the Board went to phasing. So that it would be reclaimed and not have the whole site open at once. That took care of a lot of this.

Gary Voogt stated he would like to see something written on the plan about compaction and comittment to the future grade.

Mr.Velting stated that we can give you a letter stating it for this year. It will take a week or two. Next year we will have it on the plan.

Gary Voogt moved and Scott Conners supported the motion to approve the mineral mining license for 2200 Walker until February 28, 2007.

The Board imposed the following conditions:

1. A soil erosion permit be obtained.

2. Submit letter of intent regarding future grade and compaction.

Motion carried 5 to 0.

Shoemaker Aggregates has requested approval for a mineral mining license.

Property located at 2713 Wilson, SW also known on the tax rolls as 41-17-07-100-040- & 041.

Applicant & Shoemaker Aggregates Corp.

Mining Cont: 2633 Wilson, SW

Grand Rapids, Mi. 49504

Owner: Shoemaker Aggregates

2633 Wilson, SW

Grand Rapids, Mi. 49504

Steve Versluis, Chairman reviewed the application. No other citizen appeared with respect to this request.

Bonnie Broadwater, Engineering Dept. stated there were no concerns on this site.

Jeff Nelson stated that we had 3 conditions from last year.

1. That Young’s environmental containers be removed from the site. They have been removed.

2. The berm on the west portion of the site be removed from the plan.

3. Northern retention basin be allowed to be a moving process to the north meaning that they can over excavate the active face to let that act as a retention, detention basin.

He went on to say that we did receive the bond on this site but we have not received the fence certification.

Scott Conners asked if there were no conditions about the house to the east and the reclamation around there?

Mr. Nelson stated that was not in the conditions.

Scott Conners stated that we have talked for a couple of years about the reclamation being done first. We do not want a hill here that is steeper than the ordinance will allow.

Gary Voogt asked if the backyard here was flat?

Brent DeRose replied, no it still rises up. He stated we need numbers on the site plan.

Scott Conners stated that this slope, as he measured it, was one on one, about 40 vertical feet and he feels it is a dangerous slope and right up against someone’s property line without any buffers there.

Brent DeRose replied that we have always talked about that because we were encroaching on the setback there. We have always been too close to the property line. Last year we talked about an agreement with the Timms that the way we show this on the plan is acceptable to them. That agreement was given to the City of Walker and you have that. This pit has been idle for years but now they are back there working on it. They have sold a lot of material out of here. The area directly to the north needed to be cleared and it is cleared now. The slope there is being built up. The fence is up now and they have been working on it. This year we will continue to work on both sides of the oil well as we continue to the north. We will reclaim as we go.

Bob Shoemaker stated that the area to the south has all been reclaimed about 15 years ago.

Scott Conners asked if that teepee in the corner will remain?

Bob Shoemaker replied that the Timm’s property probably goes up at the most 8 or 10 ft. and then you hit our property line. That will be level with the Timm’s property. We are going to take from their backyard right to their corner and level that with our dozer which is only 30 or 40 ft. of that corner. Then we will continue mining around the corner and then the one on five will start from their backyard elevation.

Scott Conners stated that as long as we have a letter from the Timms and they are being worked with, he is happy.

Frank Wash moved and Mark Koning supported the motion to approve the mineral mining license for 2713 Wilson until February 28, 2007.

The Board imposed the following conditions:

1. Fence certification be submitted to the Building Dept.

2. Revised plans submitted to the Building Dept. showing the Timms lot corner recontouring and submitted within two weeks of this approval.

3. Soil erosion permit be obtained.

Motion carried 5 to 0.

MMRB 2-16-06

Shoemaker Aggregates has requested approval for a mineral mining license.

Property located at 2619 Butterworth also known on the tax rolls as 41-13-33-400-002.

Applicant & Shoemaker Aggregates

Mining Cont: PO Box 908

Grandville,Mi.49418

Owners: Dawn Kleibusch Henry Hendges

826 California, NW 826 California, NW

Grand Rapids, Mi. 49504 Grand Rapids, Mi. 49504

Steve Versluis, Chairman reviewed the application and site plan. No one appeared with respect to this request.

Bonnie Broadwater, Engineering Dept. stated there are no problems on this site but they do need a soil erosion permit.

Jeff Nelson stated that there were no conditions on this site but that Scott Conners comment was that he would like to see them come back next year with a new reclamation plan to coordinate with adjacent property. We did receive the bond and the fence certification.

Brent DeRose stated that this plan is pretty much the same as in the past. We have revised the plans meshing with Meekhof’s. The drainage goes east to west toward our sediment basin. Our contours tie off into the proper location. There is still good embankment material on this site. The site does not have a lot of vegetation on it and there are some partially stabilized areas. The mining will continue to the north and we will reclaim the slopes and floor elevation as we go.

Gary Voogt stated that it appears that this plan is two years old. Does that mean that we have not done anything here in two years?

Brent DeRose replied that is right. He then showed pictures of the site.

Scott Conners stated that this is a simple site, as long as the reclamation contours match the neighboring sites and as long as everything is coordinating, that is not much of an issue here.

Bob Shoemaker commented that we are working on the site to the north on the Goodale property and the Goodales have bought the property to the west. There is a boundary between us. The slope actually starts on Goodale’s property to the west and we did remove some of their material.

Scott Conners stated that in the middle of the site the reclamation contour is 644. As you follow that to the west property line, it hits an elevation of about 660. The other adjacent site has the same reclamation contour and it looks like you have excavated up to your property line there.

Bob Shoemaker stated that if you go to the west, there is an island along the property line, on the adjacent property and then it falls off. That matches our floor level. What you need to do is remove that out of there and then there will be a big flat field there. Until there is a need for that material, that will not happen on the adjacent site to the west. It is not class 2 sand and that is what everyone is asking for right now.

Steve Versluis asked if the reclaimed site is as large as it looks on the map?

Bob Shoemaker replied that yes it is a big site. The lower area has been reclaimed and is doing well. The north half of the property has not been reclaimed. There are no banks in there. There is 30 some feet of material in there yet. It is a high bank. The top soil is there to reclaim it when it needs to be.

Mark Koning moved and Scott Conners supported the motion to approve the mineral mining license for 2619 Butterworth until February 28, 2007.

The Board imposed the following condition:

1. A soil erosion permit be obtained.

Motion carried 5 to 0.

Jeff Nelson stated that the Mines Golf Course does not have a mineral mining license. It was a discussion between the Planning Commission and the Mineral Mining Board. He went on to say that from his perspective, he has no enforcement on the conditions imposed and the fact that they were suppose to be done by November 2005. This was a joint venture between the Planning Commission and the Mineral Mining Board. They never had a public hearing or obtained a mineral mining license.

Steve Versluis asked what were we thinking?

Jeff Nelson replied that they were building a golf course and they could remove sand to build a golf course.

Scott Conners stated that we have other mining contractors here that are mad because we did not make the Mines Golf Course go through the same process. We said we were going to let this go for three months and they are going to be done with it. The staff all disagreed that there would be no public hearing. We felt that there should be a public hearing. We now need to decide if they should come in to the Mineral Mining Board and apply just like everyone else.

Steve Versluis felt that they should be made to come in and get a mineral mining license. Because they have exceeded the time frame they gave us to be done, they should now get a license to mine.

Scott Conners stated that the special exception has expired and they need to follow the same rules as everyone else.

Frank Wash suggested that we send them a registered letter. They are running a mine operation without a license so they need to be notified of that with a certified letter and should be given an opportunity to come in and present their application and we will hold a public hearing. The Planning Commission gave them slack for one season because they assured us they would be finished and the sand would be out of there. It was essentially balancing the site for the golf course.

Steve Versluis stated that they are competing with other sand mining contractors. Therefore they have to agree to certain rules.

Frank Wash stated that the Planning Commission staff felt they should go through the same process that any contractor has to go through. We have to follow our ordinances.

The Board was of a consensus that a letter would be written to Mr. Shimmel stating that he is running a mineral mining operation and he would have three weeks to come in and get a license.

Scott Conners moved and Frank Wash supported the motion to approve the mineral mining minutes of January 24, 2006.

Motion carried 5 to 0.

.Scott Conners moved and Frank Wash supported the motion to close the mineral mining meeting at 5:20 p.m.

Motion carried 5 to 0.

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