MMRB Minutes

MEETING
CITY OF WALKER
MINERAL MINING REVIEW BOARD
Tuesday, January 30, 2007
3:00 p.m.

The meeting of the Mineral Mining Board of Review was called to order by Steve Versluis, Chairman at 3:00 p.m. at City Hall, 4243 Remembrance Rd., N.W., Walker, Michigan.

Members present: Steve Verluis, Chairman; Frank Wash; Scott Conners; and Mark Koning. Also present: Jeff Nelson, Building Dept.; Tim McGladdery, Building Dept; Bonnie Broadwater, Engineering Dept.; and Bonnie Antcliff, Recording Secretary.

Velting Contractors has requested approval for a Mineral Mining license.

Property located at 2200 Walker Ave., also known on the tax rolls as 41-13-10-329-001, 003, & 41-13-10-451-002.

Applicant & Velting Contractors Owner: Kenneth & Kathleen Jackson

Mining Cont: 3060 Breton Rd., SE 5924 Barna Ave.

Kentwood, Mi. Titusville, Fla. 32780

Brent DeRose of Nederveld Associates represented Velting Contractors. He stated that this mine was very active this year. They supplied a lot of the product for the I-96 road project and there was a huge amount of sand removed from this pit. One of the conditions from last year was that a letter be submitted by Mr. Velting on how the site was going to be compacted and how the material was going to be handled on site. That material has been submitted to the Board. We also applied for a soil erosion permit. On the southwest corner of the site there was a house and the house was brought down and a lot of sand came out of that area. He then showed the areas that are going to be concentrated on for this year. The face continues to work to the west as we get closer to the sanitary sewer easement. In 2007 we will be focusing on the southwest and northwest corner of the site. There are a lot of miscellaneous piles on the site and we are going to focus on cleaning those up and working toward the end of the mining. There are probably 100,000 yards or less that still need to come out of here.

Bonnie Broadwater stated that it does not look like there is any sediment leaving the site. They have done a good job of containing everything on the site. There are no specific issues here to be concerned about.

Jeff Nelson stated that we did receive a fence certification and a bond renewal on this site.

Scott Conners stated that at the last hearing we had a long discussion on over excavation and it looks like they are almost at the point where there is no more fill to be taken out. There are a lot of places here that are as much as 15 ft. deep and deeper than the proposed grade, which is a big concern. Someone is liable to put a building on there and the footings are going to be 10 ft. above the virgin soil there. So there is going to have to be a lot of testing here and that will be a burden on whoever buys these lots. He would like to see the letter by Veltings signed off by the owners because they should know what they are getting into. There is no testing taking place there now. It is just good faith and trust and he felt the owners should know that. The owners should sign off on this so that they know that the property they are going to sell in the end will be flawed and there is going to be a lot of cost involved in testing.

Steve Versluis asked if there was much correspondence between the Jackson’s and Veltings?

Scott Velting replied that he has a good relationship with the Jacksons. They are aware of what is going on here and they know what the grades are. Nothing goes on here that they do not know about. He went on to say that he spent a lot of time with the Jackson’s son this past summer. He stated that they trust us and we would not do anything to destroy the property. We are always on the site even if there is another contractor there. We address all the issues here even if it is another contractor there. We have dealt with the Jacksons for about 40 years. He stated there would be no problem with them signing off on a letter. We could get a letter to you within a month.

Steve Verluis commented that when over excavation is done and soils are brought in from another site to compensate, what kind of material is brought in and what can you build on?

Scott Conners replied that our ordinance says it should be inert material.

Scott Velting replied that we want clean fill and nothing organic. If it is concrete, we process and recycle that. We have to document the material we bring in. We take top soil and reprocess top soil. We use top soil on the slopes. We don’t bury top soil. Anything questionable such as roots and such will be used on the slopes that will break down for organics and we use that as a growing medium. Everything that is brought in is compactable and is clean such as sand, clay and a combination of clay and sand. We do not like to have wet material because we cannot get density on it. Some of that will be brought in and then mixed with drier material. We do earth moving for a living and we know what we can put where and what works. When we can drive highway equipment on it and it is like a brick, that is evidence that it is buildable.

Scott Conners stated that for the reclamation, you have a cul-de-sac shown here as the final plan which is inconsistent with what we have been dealing with here for the past 10 years and with our master transportation plan on the east property line.

Scott Velting replied that the reason we did that is that we had a copy of a letter from Micron Industries that they no longer wanted to be a part of the permit. We used to have a portion of their property in the northeast corner of our site that adjoined theirs. They disagree with the City’s stance on that road. We do show the centerline. When the discussions about extending Kloet came on, we extended it. Now that Micron is not buying into this anymore, we don’t feel that we can count on that road being extended. We are demonstrating that we can develop this property as industrial, as has always been planned, which we have to show as an end use. This is an end use on our property. If Kloet gets extended, the same layout that we had before is possible. Right now it is out of our hands.

Scott Conners replied that he felt that we still require you to extend this to the east property line even if the issues with Micron had not been worked out because who is going to come in later and build that piece of road? To have two industrial cul-de-sacs staring at each other, when the transportation master plan talks about the importance of connecting them, and it would be stupid of us to let a cul-de-sac sit there.

Mr. Velting replied that if it gets to the point of development, we could certainly discuss that.

Scott Conners stated that the only thing we are here for is to control the end use. We let you over excavate etc. but they only thing we are going to hold strong to is the final end use.

Mr. Velting replied that he knows that they have to demonstrate that the property has an end use. Up until the point when we actually propose something, this is just a concept. We are not saying that this will ever be done, but it could be done. He went on to say that he understood that the mineral mining ordinance wants to know what can be done with the property. Yes, we could extend the road. This may not be developed until 2020. He stated that because of the letter that he has from Micron, that could not happen. We are not opposed to the road but according to this letter, it is not going to happen. He stated he did not know what this has to do with the mineral mining license that we are seeking. This is not a development plan, this is a mineral mining plan. The issue is, do we have a right to draw a road on their property?

Frank Wash replied not on their property. We are asking you to draw the road to your property line. We will deal with the adjacent property when the issue comes up.

Mr. Velting stated that the reclamation contours have not changed. This is the exact same plan as last year. The road was stopped short to make a good cul-de-sac. If the road does not go, it is good planning. If the road does go, it will go. We are not doing anything to keep that road from going through there. We have not changed those contours. That is the area of the pit that is being used for concrete recycling. It will be the last area of the pit to be developed. We can put the road back if that is what you want.

Frank Wash replied that we have a stake in the reclamation plan for this site. In the past we have had the road shown. We are not asking you to show the road on someone else’s property but to show it the way it was in the past and restore the grades to meet the City’s requirement for the slopes.

Mr. Velting replied that the grades will not be restored, and the road will not be built until the site is developed. He asked if the Board would accept a letter from them and the Jacksons stating that if the road is to go through, we would work with the City of Walker.

Frank Wash replied that we need it on the plan. The City needs a legal standing they can rely on and that is the site plan. Signing off on a plan like this shows that we are not following our transportation master plan. We need to see the old plan as it has been.

Mr. Velting stated that he did not want the City to put him in the middle of an issue with his neighbor and he does not feel comfortable with that. We would like this street to happen but it is not up to us.

Scott Conners stated that we are just telling you to leave the reclamation contours roughly in this shape. We have let you go 10 to 15 ft. deeper in the past and still issued you a permit, when we shouldn’t have. We are asking you to leave it in a state to allow it to meet the master plan. We are not asking you to build it. We still have issues to work out with Micron.

Brent DeRose stated that there is a hill here that needs to be taken down yet to make all the contours work.

Scott Conners stated that this year the Prestons did not sign off on the permit and so that means that the grades are not going to work out here. Every year we have been saying clean up the northeast end of that site before you come back and every year it does not work. It never gets done and now they are not part of the permit and we never got it cleaned up and there are a lot of steep slopes there and it sounds like it is out of play.

Scott Velting replied that he disagrees with that. The northeast side is cleaned up. It is restored and has grass on it that is growing. The road was never going to be constructed and that is where we stock pile all our concrete. We have never had permission to do anything on the Preston property. The Prestons were mining sand for their use and rather than have a separate mining application, it was added to our mineral mining permit for convenience.

Scott Conners replied that he did not have a problem with the mining there. He felt it should be mined but it sounds like it was mined out with no reclamation ever being performed.

Brent DeRose stated that this area was never disturbed. The corner is still vegetated and has never been disturbed and there is grass and vegetation here to the south.

Frank Wash stated that last year’s drawing is what we are looking for.

Mark Koning stated that with the heavy trucking that went on here this past year we had several issues. We were always able to get a hold of Mr. Velting and everything was taken care of. He has always been very cooperative. He went on to say that he would like to see no more kick off brooms for clean up on the roadways. He would like to see that cleaned up with vacuum trucks and not just kicked up and over the curb.

Scott Conners asked about lots 2 & 3.

Brent DeRose replied that it will be flattened out and used to fill on the north part of 2, 3, and 4.

Mr. Velting stated that it is our intention to fill it with material from other construction sites. There is a good likelihood that there will be a considerable amount of fill coming in this summer again.

Scott Conners stated that his concern is that you will come in with an ever shrinking area where the mining is actually proposed and there is not much to it and it is just a fill site. We do not want to have this open as a fill site for the next 20 years. There has got to be an end.

Mr. Velting felt that there is 100,000 yards of dirt to come out of here yet. As this winds down it will be important for us to have a source for material. We may only take 25,000 or 30,000 yards a year out of here.

Scott Conners stated that he would feel better if they had a third or a half of the site reclaimed and have just one bank. He then asked what the ordinance has to say about concrete.

Jeff Nelson stated that we have a new definition for processing of concrete and it is allowed in the industrial district and not the agricultural district. This site is heavy industrial. This is a non-conforming situation here. They have been crushing concrete for a long time.

Frank Wash stated that we are concerned that as sand mining winds down, this will turn into a concrete crushing site forever and never ges used. We know the industrial market right now is super soft, so we do not expect anything great to happen on this site for some time.

Scott Velting stated that we could be here for another 4 years yet, all we can do is guess.

Frank Wash stated that he would like to see on next year’s application a more comprehensive list on material being brought in and used as fill. We do not have anything in the ordinance right now that requires compaction testing or some kind of certification of what is being brought onto the site. Eventually there will be an ordinance to address that. We need to know what is going into the ground here.

Scott Velting replied it is going to be clay and sand and that is clean fill.

Scott Conners moved and Frank Wash supported the motion to open the public hearing.

Motion carried 4 to 0.

Don Peterson, 2106 Blue Bell Way, Blueberry Association asked how much longer they will be mining here?

Mr. Velting replied that all we can do is guess. Possibly 4 years, it depends on the level of activity.

Mr. Peterson stated that 3 years ago we talked about the truck traffic here and a sign was put up. We are still getting trucks through there and they back into our condo area and have knocked down our sign twice.

Mr. Velting replied if they are coming out of the pit, to call him. Most of the crushing is done in the wintertime when windows are closed.

Dave Goosen, Bissell Inc. is worried about the road being tracked up. He stated that he gets a lot of calls about the road.

Mike Preston, Micron Mfg. stated that his father, Ed has always signed off on the Mineral Mining permit because some of their property was mined. He went on to say he came to this meeting to see what is going on and you are talking about the extension of Kloet. He stated that he was disappointed because the agenda says nothing about Kloet but that this was a mineral mining meeting about the permit. You are saying that Micron should have their land mined. We do not want that and we are not in that business. There is no intention of selling any sand and there is no intention of even looking at lot 4.

We bought land in the 60’s and we donated land to the City for part of the road when they asked for it with no compensation. We were trying to be good neighbors. We provide employment and we are expanding. We are talking about future development and we are providing good manufacturing jobs now. The City has no regard of who has helped build this City with the tax base. He went on to say that he did not feel it was right to tell Mr. Velting he cannot have this permit if he does not sign off here. This is not right. With that extension put on there, it is going to happen with no regard for Micron. He asked what is the next step for me to oppose this? It does not look like it is here. It is convoluted when you own your property but you cannot develop it the way you want.

Steve Versluis responded that we are not trying to railroad anything through here. A process will have to be done through the Planning Commission. You will be able to oppose any uses or development. The mandate of this Board is to make sure that the property has a viable end use to it. If we feel that a road is the most agreeable to the development of this site, then we are going to try and push those things. The primary concern here is that something be done with these sites when the mining operations are finished.

Scott Conners stated that he has had no less than 5 meetings about this issue over the last 10 years and have spent close to 100 hours working with people and trying to come up with the right solution. About 3 or 4 years ago we had formal discussions about this and business was not so good and so there was not any real reason to talk about it from Micron’s standpoint. We layed out lots of potential routes to work around your facility to make that road connection. We had 4 or 5 different ones and we have gone a long way to make this connection because we feel it is important for the transportation system and the City but also to work around you. We need to sit down and start talking about it.

Mr. Preston replied that we have a letter to Frank dated Sept. 2005 that addresses an alternate route to the north of our property along the tracks. He stated he did not like this Board saying if you don’t draw this road on your plan you will not get the permit. You are not asking for this if it does not mean anything. We are concerned about the road going through at this location. It will diminish the value of our property.

Frank Wash stated that the reason why we are planning this road connection is because the City is obligated to plan streets and that is done in processes like this and at the Planning Commission.

Mr. Preston replied that we need to talk about alternate routes. He stated he was here to express his opposition.

Michael Farran 2252 Walker Ave. stated he wondered how all this relates to his property.

Frank Wash stated that the property will stay zoned as it is unless you petition the City to change it. There is a buffer to protect your property.

Frank Wash moved and Scott Conners supported the motion to close the public hearing.

Motion carried 4 to 0.

Frank Wash moved and Mark Koning supported the motion to approve the Mineral Mining permit for 2200 Walker Ave. until February 28, 2008.

The Board imposed the following conditions:

Motion carried 4 to 0.

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